we're talking about the document, the amazing documentary that will air on pbs called "makers" that you were both involved in making. and also the prattling on about day care. and everything from the labor movement, there's a transcendent sublime energy and dynamism. there's these shots at taking the streets in a big march and the confrontation hearings and things like that. and then if a movement is successful, it has to sort of institutionalize itself, right? you get boards of directors and you file. i'm curious, marlo, how you as a life-language activist, think about maintaining that energy, maintaining that sense of intense dynamic consciousness over a period of time? >> well, a lot of it is through legislation. one of the wonderful things about this country, the heart of the land does follow the law of the land. we don't even make jokes about minorities and women anymore because we passed laws that have made us feel differently about things. i think -- when i saw ruth bader ginsburg and sandra day o'connor talking about on the "makers" special about the laws. to me, that's an excit